Heaven or Paradise..?

[danieljankovic]

PAX,

My dilemma is on the issue of Heaven and Paradise.

I was always under the impression that one had to be baptised to enter the kingdom of heaven, and if a person is of another faith (e.g Buddhist or Islam) but did not do anything to directly contradict natural law (e.g murder, adultery etc) and were genuinly good people and lived charitably within the walls of their own faith, that they would be allowed entrance to Paradise... An eternal state of happiness but never seeing the face of God.

I am aware of the 3 types of Baptism; By Water, Blood and Desire.

The confusion began when in discussion...

"...Only those who are baptised with the Holy Spirit shall enter the kingdom of God, anyone else is left to the mercy of God..."

So does that mean that someone not baptised can enter. Does this only apply to people who live in remote areas of the world who have never even heard of Christianity..? What about people who have heard of Christianity and baptism and still choose not to although leading good lives.



Can someone please clarify.

Thank you, Daniel Jon Jankovic.

[DavidObeid]

Hi Daniel,

The obligation to receive Baptism to be saved is an obligation that lies on us, not on God. (God cannot be obliged to do anything c.f. Romans 11:35).

If God chooses to bestow His grace via some other means He is indeed free to do so.

For our part, if we see what the normal means for salvation is and reject it, then we commit the sin of presumption. So if we know what God demands a certain response and we refuse then we are culpable, but if we do not know then we are not.

That said, there are certain things that God requires of all men if they are to be saved. All men are to obey what St. James calls "the law of liberty" (St. James 2:12). St. Paul speaks about the same thing in Romans (my emphases are added):


12 All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:12-16)

God alone judges this allegiance to the Law of liberty or the sin against it.

The law of liberty are those things that we can know by reason are right and wrong.

The Sacraments of the New Law, which God gives us to empower us to live under the law of liberty are the normal means by which we share in His own divine life (c.f. 2 St. Peter 1:4). They do not mean that those incapable of accessing them or who do not recognise them for what they are are thereby condemned.

[danieljankovic]

Thank you for you're response Mr Obeid,

I mean absolutely no disrespect Mr Obeid, but what you're saying doesnt make sense to me.

Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned’ Mark 16:15-16

What is the point of Evangelising and spreading the word of God through scriptures if they are going to end up in Heaven anyway. If everyone can enter if not knowing better then what is the point of being Catholic and Baptised. Do Catholics get special treatment in Heaven compared to Muslims and others?

‘he who does not believe will be condemned.' Muslims deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” John 14:6

God Bless you,
PAX

[DavidObeid]

No disrespect taken Daniel. I probably just didn't explain myself well enough. I'll try again.

The only way we know of to be saved is through Baptism and faith in Christ. That means we are bound to preach the gospel throughout the whole world, and when someone hears the gospel they are bound to embrace it in order to be saved.

The onus is on us to respond to God. God, for His part, gives us all we need to fulfil that response. He gives us grace (especially through the Sacraments) to empower us to live in His friendship.

But what about those who do not get to hear the gospel, or who, for some reason beyond their control, have some sort of psychological impediment to receiving it? A Baptist may have been raised to believe that Catholics are wicked corrupters of the truth who lay traps for him to lead him out of faith to hell (I'm exaggerating (kinda), but you know what I mean). If he has the truth presented to him, but is hit by a bus before he can process it all (so he has not yet embraced it), but has spent his life in loving God and doing good, with perfect contrition for his sins, isn't he saved according to what St. Paul says in Romans 2?

The other side of the coin is that perfect contrition is a lot rarer than people think, and living a whole life of faith is even rarer. I do not for a moment presume to judge anyone, but I think it's just about impossible to get into heaven without the Sacraments, but God and his mercy are greater than what my small mind can see.

This video touches on the subject:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dcfj0PU_JQ

[danieljankovic]

Thank you Mr Obeid, you have explained it in a way I understand. Thats what I was thinking. Thank you for confirming that for me.

God bless you,


PAX

[OneFaith]

What an awesome little video clip....all in a nutshell really!

[danieljankovic]

Yeah. the video was really helpful! there are only Catholics in Heaven. awesome!

Im sorry to do this again but I have another question,, its just how my brain works, i need scenarios to help me completely understand.

In the crusades, If the Catholic knights were charging towards the Muslim Saracens and all were killed in the battle... Who goes where?
The Muslims believed that they were right in God's eyes and the Catholics believed the same. (Im sorry I keep using Muslims as an example)

What is the situation for Muslims who persecute the Catholic people and the faith itself, and look to us as enemys (Assuming they have knowledge of our beliefs). Is it correct in saying that although peoples of other faiths CAN enter the Kingdom of God, it is much harder for them to do so as they do not have access to the Sacraments.

Sorry guys lol

PAX

[DavidObeid]

Yeah. the video was really helpful! there are only Catholics in Heaven. awesome!

Im sorry to do this again but I have another question,, its just how my brain works, i need scenarios to help me completely understand.

In the crusades, If the Catholic knights were charging towards the Muslim Saracens and all were killed in the battle... Who goes where?
The Muslims believed that they were right in God's eyes and the Catholics believed the same. (Im sorry I keep using Muslims as an example)


There is only one heaven and one hell.



What is the situation for Muslims who persecute the Catholic people and the faith itself, and look to us as enemys (Assuming they have knowledge of our beliefs). Is it correct in saying that although peoples of other faiths CAN enter the Kingdom of God, it is much harder for them to do so as they do not have access to the Sacraments.

Sorry guys lol

PAX

Yes, it is correct in saying that it is much harder without the Sacraments. That's why God gave them to us.

[danieljankovic]

I understand completely now lol. And by the way, in the first part of my question I didn't mean to imply there were different heavens and hells. I meant would they go to heaven or hell.

once again, thank you.

God Bless!

PAX